Opinions presented are independent of who I am as Team Infinity founder.
Today both Great and Mighty and Triumvirate fell. These weren’t random low tier players dancing from club to club, these were the senior leadership of these clubs. Neither were these random clubs that no one care of, these were the top clubs of the game. Triumvirate has formerly claimed the #1 position while Great and Mighty has been near the top as long as anyone can remember.
The real question we have to be asking is why?
Rhetorical question I’m pretty damn sure it’s the inactivity of everyone save a select few.
When I created Team Infinity, I was a low tier player, I was barely in the top 100 and in utter honesty, I was salty that The Club didn’t accept me. So I created Team Infinity, I wanted a mid-tier social club and that’s what we have now, except for the whole mid-tier part. We now possess a discord that is more active than the game’s discord and are generally doing better than most other clubs.
That isn’t really a good thing though, as much as I like stroking my own ego (I’m a godlike founder, everyone loves me), this game needs to have more active clubs and a community. People are dropping off left and right and this will only positively reinforce.
My opinion on how to fix things involve quite a few things.
Consolidation of communication, we have an in-game chat, discord chat, and a forum. I think the in-game chat needs to go. -Focus on the game discord --Rethink the leadership of the discord. --Stop over moderating it --Make it much more casual and hopefully promote activity
-Make the forums easier to use and have it feature more prominently. --People can have meaningful, and most importantly, lasting conversation on the forums. The administration of the game should frankly never announce anything in the chat and everything should be on the forums. They have been pretty good on this lately but at the launch of the game, this was a problem.
-I think game discord is flat out better than this silly chatbox we have.
As a community we need to expand. We need a way to be able to hold players. I constantly see a lot of applications from lower-tier players to Team Infinity, I suspect The Club or Old Guard get even more, these players never actually get into a club and I constantly see them dropping from the game. There needs to be a way to retain these players. I think some sort of incentive for more lower-tier clubs need to be formed.
As a game we need more to do, Team Infinity had an in-house tournament and it was great for stimulating activity, Blank and some other were discussing a system where players can create their own tournaments and such, with automatic buy-ins and money transfers. I think that would be great for activity. This game is dying, are we gonna stop it?
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Good read. I do think we have to secure new players, in TRV we did have a lot of applicants, some of them did become great players but most fell flat and left the game
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Thank you for the serious reply Maxy. The consolidation of clubs will only make it harder for us to make newer players into good players, and without community growth we'll just keep stagnating like we are currently.
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I personally think that what is also the problem is at the core of this games design, essentially there isn't much incentive to climb because in most cases new players can't hope to achieve success while the game simulator remains so basic.
The strategy involved is limited and there isn't currently enough variables to make strategy more engaging. I feel that once they get the game sim updated a lot of these problems should die down, but at the moment there is a clear line between the top teams and the mid tier teams. Very much a rich get richer and the poor can't catch up, Random events would definitly break the monotony of the game but they're still in the future.
This game has so much going for it but it's still not a finished product which is hurting the community from growing, I myself only recently joined a Club with Crash and prior to that I felt like the game was becoming stale and repetitive.
I think that the champ buffs and nerfs would create incentive for people to be more involved and might shake up the ladder week by week making it more realistic for teams to shoot up the rankings and have a chance to feel accomplished but overall that's more of a temp fix then a permanent solution and who knows, maybe the game sim will fix that issue as well.
One thing is for certain though this is very much the CLG of games at the moment for myself and I'd assume many others; So much potential and yet short of achieving it because of certain things that are holding it back.
I have high hopes for lolmanager and will continue to support and follow it but as of right now I'm becoming bored with it. Yes the community is what will make this game thrive in the end but I think at its core the problem is more related to the above mentioned issues in my own opinion.
If you read that wall of text I applaud you and encourage further discussion on this topic.
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I'm satisfied with the game for now, i got a growth potential etc.. i'm experimenting market things and training youth players. But well, there should be more tools, a lot of ideas make sure this game can become badass. The question is, which idea will help the most in a little time ? I think making club interactions can be really entertaining at every level and strenghten the community. That should be ok for a fast entertaining and social game. Indeed playing alone can be funny, but as the "strategy" side is visibly limited we should introduce "the hype" between players troughout clubs and bonds via encouragement from the club. This is more a suggestion/ideas topic btw. Nice to see salvarity as a wiseniceguy ! Interesting comments for now !
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I'm pretty much what you have described. Division 4. Stagnating and logging in less than I used to. All of a sudden after rocketing through two seasons of inactive teams I feel lost. Clubs aren't interested in lower tier players and I don't know anyone who actually plays this. It's a shame really but honestly I don't have any idea on how I would improve it to help lower ranked teams get into the game.
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I completely understand the position you're in Bobby, if it wasn't for a certain course of events I'd probably be in your same boat.
What we need is a community that can actually engage you and people to be willing to help too.
The community needs to make it possible for you to ask questions and for there to be people to answer them and to do that on a widespread scale. As of now the best strats do not seem intuitive. It just seems like guessing and praying you're right sometimes.
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On the occasion I have used the chat box, people seemed quite helpful. Of course though at the end of the day, you are competition so I guess they won't give their exact strategy away lol.
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I don't think this game will get any more popular as long as it is so boring, unintuitive, and looks and feels unfinished.
There is very little skill or ability involved in anything, you just have to bid on the highest rated coaches, find out the one or two strategies that actually work from someone willing to disclose that information, set all your settings correctly, and then just manage your finances from day to day and try to get some enjoyment out of that.
There's no League of Legends, or even generic MOBA themes present, which is what attracted most people in the first place. The "game" is just a database. Some of the numbers are bizarre and completely unbalanced. CS for example, appears to be arbitrary, as are a lot of the stats that champions are sorted by. I imagine some players are probably leaving not long after signing up because they have tried to have apply their knowledge of league of legends to their strategies in this game, only to find that absolutely none of it matters at all. You can't apply a split pushing strategy, you can't instruct your team how to play with regards to dragons and barons. You can't tell them what items to build. Fuck, you can't even tell them to build magic on magic dealing champions and AD on physical champs at the moment. Several of the options on the strategy screen, which should be the most important screen in the game, have been greyed out since day one.
Everything is faceless too, there's very little aesthetically for people to relate to. My players are just a couple of spreadsheet stats, the champions are just an option on a drop down menu. This kind of thing is important even in a browser and management game, and lolmanager is sorely lacking even an attempt at any of this.
And this is all coming from someone who has been here since beta. Waiting, hoping for the game to actually become a game. tbh lolmanager probably released far too early. If the devs were to put a lot of work into it instead of releasing while their game was barely a brainstormed web page, then I'm sure players would flood to it once again, and be willing to stay. But I expect more people will continue to leave unless a lot of these complaints I've thrown out are addressed.
tldr: The game is dying because it's shit. Make it better.
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Yeah pretty much what SEASON2MVPCHAOX said. The game needs more and I really hope that the game sim update brings just that.
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Game Engine update is already in the makings and this should definitely fix a lot of problems mentioned above. Hopefully we will have it live end of October.
However I have an idea how how to make clubs more interesting for the top teams and also for the lower tier teams. Imagine that clubs have to start managing lower tier teams and will receive some sponsorship out of it or reputation that could give a boost to the teams stats. Yes, you could actually become a manager of a team that is being managed by a real person - this would add a brand new social dimension to the game.
This is how it could be: -Every club has a limit of having X top division teams max -In order to create a club you have to be in division 2 or higher (to become a real manager/mentor). This has to be in balance with the total amount of players so everyone has a chance to join a club. -Every club has a chance to manage up to X lower tier teams max (the max number is something we have to think, it has to be in balance with the total amount of players) -All lower tier teams will share a % of their income with the top teams if they perform well or just receive extra money -If the lower tier teams perform well top teams will receive bonus reputation or a stat that will make top teams stronger -Lower tier teams have a goal to rise through the divisions so they can create their own club or join/get promoted to existing one in order to become a top manager
This could make the game much more interesting as the top teams could become actually real manager managing real persons and in the same time it will make their teams stronger. Allowing this system would have a built in feature to the game that will promote communication and creation of communities. I believe this the part what everyone loves about multiplayer games where you interact with other real life persons.
However there are still some open questions: -Why should the top teams in the same club share their strategy with other teams as their all competing with the top spot? -Will this system create an unfair advantage for the top teams that prevents lower tier teams for ever reaching their level? -This will make it mandatory for top teams to be more social and be part of a club in order to be a top team. Is it good or bad?
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About the chatbox, maybe yes it would me smart idea to close the in-game one and direct players to Discord channel as it is much more functional. I will discuss this with the team.
Is there anyone against this and why?
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Make the chat box bigger, able to moderate or just remove it.
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Let's face it. The game is in quite some shity pre-alpha state. This isn't bad per se, but the fact that the developers does not seem to recognise this is.
You can split the game in three areas: economics, players, strategy (incl. playing out games). While there clearly has been some thoughts on economics and this aspect of the game is build up on stable and easy to adjust foundation. The other two aspects are outright bad. The player stats (adc,top,etc) is the best indicator that this part is rather lackluster made up without in depth gamedesign elements. Well, i better leave out the strategy part.
So right now it is quite a flat game. Creating such a simple game is not bad by definition. In fact it can be nice to attract a lot of people for 5 minutes. However there are gamedesign aspects that, would make you think that this is a game meant to be played over the course of months or years. This simply cant work.
I just now found out, that the developers are looking out for new ways to promote this game. Why? At best they can cash out on the project and than ditch it. Most likely they will just ruin their name and destroy all future/long run chances this game may have.
What we need you to do is: - Get back to the drawing board - Present the results and get yourself some help from the community before implementing stuff (you need help) - Change the forum/visibiltiy of forum in order to do so.
Regards Dwark
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@*TC*Dwark - Thank you for comments.
I just wanna add that at the moment all our developing efforts are going towards the game engine in order to add more depth to it and nothing more. Basically everything you said, we are working on. However atm we have 1 developer working on it with a 75% capacity on the game. If you take a look at my latest update, we are looking for extra help: https://www.lolmanager.gg/community/forum/topic/show/1814
Also I recommend reading Henri's updates in the forums, there you can read all about the updates that are coming end of the month. Check out this list of things Henri is working on: https://www.lolmanager.gg/features-v2
About promoting the game before we have a game that can be called "a ready product". That is a dilemma we had but we had to choose a bit risky path in order to prove that this game has enough interest on the market. I think we chosen a good path on this because I guess no one wants to work on a game concept that people don't like. Our experiment has proven just the opposite of it, which is good motivation for us in order to have negotiation with potential investors. The marketing that we are doing atm is not coming out of development time, it is coming out mine and Oww's personal time. We are doing this because of gathering data about different marketing channels - this is needed for later.
I am sorry if this has offended anyone but I assure you that we are not covering our eyes in anyway. We know that the game at this state is no where near the level we wish it to be. Only thing I can ask from you guys atm is that just hold on a bit more, we are working really hard to evolve the game.
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@Netstand: Thx for reply. My initial comment is little harsh to get attention. Mission accomplished :D.
I saw that you are seeking help by searching for another web developer. This isn't the help that I was referring to. Like I mentioned, I think its time to get back to the drawing board and think about how player stats, player development, game enginge and strategy should interact. Figuring out what is needed for diversity and having the cogs working together.
Maybe this has already happened in the prepartion for the features you guys want to get out by the 18th. The way how you want to implement these features is all in the shadows (or I have missed it). So I can't comment on these yet to been seen features. But I also understand that opening up can be a financial risk, considering the commitment already done and planed. So maybe I just need more faith.
Regarding promotions. If you are just checking out the market it's fine i guess. I just wondered how openly this was communicated that i was afraid you might jump the gun.
Btw it's not like you could offend with your product. If I wouldn't like it or see potential, I just would walk away. I feel like it is more on me to apologize for my straight words and somewhat madeup accusation that 'you wouldn't care.'
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@SEASON2MVPCHAOX I'll agree with pretty much everything you have said honestly.
@Netstand, I honestly do not like the forcing of clubs as "mentor organizations", they are a lot of work to recruit and actually educate people, I'd assume more than half of the top players will not actually want to do it, While I'm fine with it, forcing people to have to "manage" other people can't really end well in my opinion. I do not think forcing social behavior will be for the better.
@Netsand Part 2. I do not think we should delete the chatbox just yet, especially with the current state of the game discord. If the current state of the game discord would be changed, then I would 100% support delete the chatbox and pushing discord.
@Section, we do not need more moderation. I'd supposed moderation abilities would be good, but not more moderation.
@Dwark, I don't really have a response to you, but you bring up a lot of interesting points. :/ I just don't have anything to add/counter.
